My question gave Peter Joseph the benefit of the doubt. His response (at http://www.tinyurl.com/yedlc8b ) has now removed all doubt. I see that the Zeitgeist Movement is not what I hoped it was. If this changes, and it becomes a place working on promoting a Resource Based Economy without simultaneously undermining its acceptance even knowing that billions of human beings are in desperate need of it, drop me an email and let me know. And let me know too please of any sincere efforts you come across of people working to have the world’s resources and technology put to the service of humanity rather than to the service of profit so that we’ll all be living a great life. People everywhere would naturally be on board with this if they knew it were feasible, if they knew that there was indeed more than enough to go around and that the current state of our technology makes this more than possible. None of Peter’s “value cultivation”“ stuff is required. It’s not each other we need to change or our thinking. What needs to change is how the world’s resources and technology are now controlled and towards what end!

Angie@WhatNewsShouldBe.org

@Angie

my response coming soon…

Stay Tuned.

I think this response by one of the users on the Global forums summarizes my response.

“I think that’s a bold and misguided assumption to think the world can change without a simultaneous shift in the human value system. You seem to have misunderstood The Zeitgeist Movement – it is first and foremost in avocation of social change through aligning ourselves with natural law, i.e. eliminating all the materialism and value distortions that this system generates. A societal shift into a RBE cannot occur without this value shift. This is why communication is the most important thing right now. It is not simply about unleashing science and technology to produce abundance and arrive at decisions (yes, those are vital parts), it is much more. I think it’s also presumptuous to claim that “people everywhere would naturally be on board with this” if they understood. They cannot understand at present with the tools they have – you can’t reason with most people in this system, since their frames of reference are way too limited and their value systems are beyond distorted. This is again why communication is the most important part.

Simply changing the name of the movement, I feel, will not help, especially at this point, when the traces can be easily made. Like Peter denotes, names are arbitrary. I also think you’re projecting when you label the word ‘zeitgeist’ as mysterious – the definition of the word is exactly what we’re dealing with here.

I hope you reconsider your stance.”

That’s exactly what I was going to say…

Peter Joseph actually submitted 3 different responses in the thread responding to my open letter here: http://www.tinyurl.com/yedlc8b
This is a good place to see concise statements of varying views on the nature/purpose of the Zeitgeist movement.

You are upset that he dismissed your pokes at him, and rightfully so, but his responses are correct in the sense that people need to open their mind to what we are about. Social change. Associations that people make with us are not our concern. There will always be people that skew things.

To me the answer seems much too obvious and the subject was completely left out of this over simplified and rather immature statement.

MONEY. It makes me wonder if Angie even watched Zeitgeist Addendum or just read the movement’s purpose skipping around here and there. Taking us out of the monetary system that literally RUNS THE WORLD through the corrupt banking system, massive corporations that are used as fronts to run wars in the interest of corrupt politicians. The FDA alone would never give up it’s strangle hold on the power to decide what we ingest much less give up the profits that it entitles.

The values are literally decided by a system that enables the rich and powerful to always get ever increasingly wealthier by exploiting and manipulating everyone else. How exactly does Angie herself plan to start an Anti-Monetary Movement which has to start WITHIN this huge corrupt monetary system? By merely suggesting a resource based economy?

It’s like if Peter wrote Zeitgeist one and two with Jacques Fresco’s Venus Project in one book and Angie only read the summary on the back cover as a basis for her review.

Like with anything that is successfully enacted in human history, It all comes down to the fact that people have to come together for a common goal. This goal can only even start to come to fruition if there is a mutual understanding among those people. The message is getting out there and according to the latest statistics we will be one million strong in 2010. Everything is going according to the natural progression of learned information.

It all starts with the individual as it started with those that have joined thus far. That is the beginning of changing the ideals and values of a system that depends on those people to operate on the belief of illusions such as the VALUE of the money that perpetuates the backwards behavior it encourages such as competition and the coveting of such seemingly scarce resources.

As with most people who think this whole movement is a farce or a scam, Angie does not get the ‘big picture’ and should neither depend on Peter for all the answers but understand fully the goal of this movement itself and what it takes to achieve that goal.

Regardless of what was said, what is being said, and by whom it is being said, we recognize a need for change. Because the content can hit on touchy subjects, it’s open to destructive criticism and speculation. (I.e what is the merit of the movement). Unanswered technical questions are an automatic credibility reduction. (I.e If we do “n” the power structure will just swallow up that resource and nothing changes) This is all typical of a speculative society.

After hitting so many walls with people in this way, I have come to the personal conclusion that I want to focus on only the facts that relate to the current audience. 3 points in particular are indisputable and everyone can agree.
1: A change is necessary for a cleaner, healthier, sustainable future
2: Natural power is a possible answer
3: What can we do today.

Aside from joining movements and posting opinions, joining marches and the like, which are all good things. the changes start within, and within your own home. If you can shave 10 % off your heating or electric bill, and you did so for basically no money, then this should be your doorway into the hearts of a skeptical society.

I am currently testing a variety of energy options. Everything from building plans, devices (yeah they cost money), conceptual ideas..anything I can get my hands on to become more power independent. Once I know a few tried and true things I can do for basically no cost, I will start with my neighbors. “Look what I did to shave 10 % off my electric bill!” They can’t ignore that. And if they are old, I will help them. And if they are struggling because they are poor, I will buy the materials for them (within reason).

Some people need to see from the movement that we are here to not only grow a movement, but to come into your homes, hold your hands and hearts, and guide you to real permanent physical things that matter.
Once this type of idea takes form, it is indisputable what the goals of the movement are. That is the true beginning of change. To help those that cannot help themselves. Then you will truly see change in every aspect, regardless of the presentation we have, regardless of who is saying what and where. People shun controversy. They don’t want to hear it. They live in their own little bubbles, and that’s all they are conditioned to do. Like good little citizens. But if you can help just a fraction of them start to get off the grid, dont matter how small, you have just planted the seeds of zeitgeist.

Cheers,
-rb

Wow! Well said, all of you. Very interesting discourse to witness, although I’m way late. If anyone is still reading this, I might add a tidbit from my person experience. My family is very far ‘right wing,’ very much pursuades by Christianity, and conversations with them about a reaource based economy never get beyond being dismissed as ‘unrealistic’ or ‘utopian.’ As for the zeitgeist films: ‘ridiculous conspiracy theory, left wing liberal bs.’

So you can see that there are people out there like this that truly don’t have the tools to ‘automatically be on board’ with the idea of a resource based economy. That isn’t to say that there are not people out there who are already skeptical of the way our current system operates, who would immediately see a resource based economy as obvious and sound logic. There are however people who require much more to escape the aberrated conditioning they have experienced.

So from my personal experience, I support Peter (and Jacque, and increasingly more individuals’) case that a value systems shift will in many cases need to come before the chicken AND the egg.

Beautiful stated, Robert. I completely agree with you.

For now change starts with knowledge first and foremost… waking people up from our mass media hypnotic trance, into a state of confronting the truth, based of facts. Then we can start the process of waking other people up in our vicinity and THEN we’re ready for a massive change….collectively.

Great forum,
Jo